Do not allow a hostile take over of a open source project by industry

[SpaceMonkey]

I was listening to a scientist who was on the global board of climate change advisory (unsure the exact name) and he made this "Complacency is much more dangerous than fatalism" statement in regards to global warming and it rung as true as any truth I've ever heard spoken.

The majority of the problems we see in society we see because of political apathy and general apathy. People are too lazy to educate themselves so that they can make rational evidence based decisions.

This same thing is occurring in bitcoin. You would think that industry members who are financially incentivized to make sure that bitcoin is the most successful system possible would educate themselves about the future of their system.

Instead, we have a bunch of suits throwing money at the problem. As if money could fix this problem. Hiring your favorite dev to build a repository in an attempt to hijack the reference client is not a solution to an issue related to decentralized networks.

The issue in the first place is that we have a centralized industry. The people who have advocated and signed on for SegWit2x are exactly the problem bitcoin was intending to avoid.

Bitcoin was supposed to be a radically self-reliant system that did not need to trust intermediaries in order to function. And now instead, we have a host of industry leaders acting as intermediaries to force a non-technical and politically motivated "solution" down our throats.

I cannot advocate for risky BIP's that are playing chicken with the blockchain and are assured to cause a split. But I can advocate for rejecting SegWit2x and refusing to transact on the blockchain that their hardfork creates.

If you act complacent in this you are allowing the industry to hijack a decentralized network and to centralize it so that they can control aspects of the network that favor them.

We currently have 100's of developers contributing to Bitcoin Core from around the world that have Cypherpunk roots, that are open and transparent in everything they do from their IRC meetings to PR's on github and here on reddit.

And then you have the other people who work behind closed doors, refuse to onboard developers unless they are forced to agree with a plan, sign secret agreements and distribute them to "trusted intermediaries" only.

Wake the fuck up bitcoiners. These assholes are the exact kind of people that bitcoin was designed to nullify! Yes, I understand that some of these people have helped build bitcoin. Bitpay is a great example, think of how much money they have poured into marketing and advertisement.

But remember that they signed up for this. They signed up knowing that they were investing in a decentralized network in which they would not have control.

What we need now more than anything are competitors within the ASIC manufacturing industry. We desperately need more companies like 21 but with good ideas that actually increase decentralization. We need more bitfury's.

Instead of being complacent, what can we do to minimize the monopolistic forces? Who can we help fund? Who do we advocate for?

Im asking because I dont have the answers. It seems very little do. The centralization of industry has been bitcoins biggest problem since the day it was born. It continues to be the largest problem we face today.

What are we going to do about it? Are we going to sit on our thumbs and finger our butts while these assholes take over bitcoin? Or are we going to wake the fuck up and start making demands to the SegWit2x Signatories?

I know one goddamn thing, I will never under any circumstance run a segwit2x client. I do not negotiate with terrorists and Jihan said himself, he was blocking SW to "fire core devs". He said it plain as day for everyone to see. Thats direct evidence of a coup. There is no speculation needed. He's like a certain someone who likes to talk on twitter and constantly puts his foot in his mouth, self-inflicting all of his problems. We cannot ignore this!


https://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment ... _fatalism/

[patrick.miller]

As a long-time bitcoiner myself, I'm honestly sick of both sides of this debate. I don't like BU's code and I don't like Core's attitude. Core should have scheduled a hard-fork to activate SegWit and increase the blocksize exactly as the Hong Kong agreement was supposed to be. BU (and XT and Classic before them) should have put their money where their mouth was and scheduled their own hard fork long ago as well.

This is why I support SegWit2x (btc1). It has support of the industry, and it's run by Jeff Garzik who has a lot more patience and ability to compromise and lead the community.

I don't want a chain split if we can avoid one, and SegWit2x seems like the BEST way to avoid a chain split and get Bitcoin 's development into more responsible hands.

Jeff Garzik, Mike Belshe, and Christopher Jeffrey were definitely the best ones to take the lead on this effort.

Props to Roger Ver for supporting their efforts

[Possum577]

I was listening to a scientist who was on the global board of climate change advisory (unsure the exact name) and he made this "Complacency is much more dangerous than fatalism" statement in regards to global warming and it rung as true as any truth I've ever heard spoken.

Absolutely correct!

And that's why letting the bitcoin blockchain remain as it is with a 1mb cap on transaction sizes will lead us to certain death!

Don't be complacent. Act. Look for ways to evolve bitcoin and get the fuck on board with that growth. To reject the desire to make bitcoin better able to meet the future market is an exercise in fatalism...as you so eloquently stated.

[Possum577]

Ok, seriously. Thank you, after my several requests, for sharing an actual opinion on what you don't like about the impending Segwit scenario. Let's talk, can we talk about this?

The majority of the problems we see in society we see because of political apathy and general apathy. People are too lazy to educate themselves so that they can make rational evidence based decisions.

This same thing is occurring in bitcoin. You would think that industry members who are financially incentivized to make sure that bitcoin is the most successful system possible would educate themselves about the future of their system.

100% agree, but this has nothing to do with the Core vs. Unlimited vs. Segwit vs. [insert next option here]. Bitcoin, by design, is a political beast. Any system where consensus is required to get new developments accepted will require politics to persuade the community to agree with one side or the other, i.e., to generate consensus.

Don't make this out to be some negative characteristic of the debate.

Instead, we have a bunch of suits throwing money at the problem. As if money could fix this problem. Hiring your favorite dev to build a repository in an attempt to hijack the reference client is not a solution to an issue related to decentralized networks.

The issue in the first place is that we have a centralized industry. The people who have advocated and signed on for SegWit2x are exactly the problem bitcoin was intending to avoid.

Stop with the cliches. This isn't even an argument. The reason bitcoin exist is because (literally) money rules the world. Any evolution of bitcoin requires money to work through options, develop code, and communicate what's being proposed.

Bitcoin was supposed to be a radically self-reliant system that did not need to trust intermediaries in order to function. And now instead, we have a host of industry leaders acting as intermediaries to force a non-technical and politically motivated "solution" down our throats.

You're wrong here, Bitcoin was supposed to always required and allow for others (Satoshi and beyond) to influence and change the code and design. These changes happened as soon as Satoshi released Bitcoin. Hal Finney and the student from Sweden (name escapes me, I'll come back with it though) were making changes to the code in early 2010. Satoshi faded away becomes enough developers had come to the table to oversee and provide influence on the code.

We currently have 100's of developers contributing to Bitcoin Core from around the world that have Cypherpunk roots, that are open and transparent in everything they do from their IRC meetings to PR's on github and here on reddit.

EXCELLENT! What proposal do these Bitcoin Core developers have to (1) increase transaction confirmation times, (2) reduce transaction fees, and (3) allow for transaction size growth to be accommodated by the blockchain?

Seriously, I don't know their proposal. Please send me a link so I can educate myself! Thanks.

What we need now more than anything are competitors within the ASIC manufacturing industry. We desperately need more companies like 21 but with good ideas that actually increase decentralization. We need more bitfury's.

If it'll take companies to fight Segwit, you're too late. Companies aren't just created in a few weeks time. What do you really think we need here? Why haven't the Bitcoin Core developers taken action to make their voice heard?

Instead of being complacent, what can we do to minimize the monopolistic forces? Who can we help fund? Who do we advocate for?

Of course! The millionaire miners don't control it all. Get more developers on board. But what do you want from people in the general Bitcoin Discussion board to do? You want everyone to download a node (who hasn't already) to reject consensus to Segwit?

I think you're ignoring the fact that the thing we're talking about influencing is money. Big money influences the little money, always and forever in the history of the world. Instead of ranting here you should be sharing a link where we can each decide to fund an effort that does something different than Segwit...and with a concise list of reasons why your proposal for the future is the correct on (not a list of grievances and complaints about the current proposals on the table.)

Let's talk about this. Don't ignore me...all of us...and then put up another thread tomorrow on the same topic. If you're not willing to talk to us, we're not willing to listen!