Ross Ulbricht Sentencing

[bitkilo]

I just wanted to post a couple of links here about the Ross Ulbricht saga.
I have been following the whole Ross Ulbricht/Silk Road affair since it started and this is the sort of stuff movies are made about, drug dealing kingpin, murder for hire, dodgie cops and even a little romance. It has it all.

I personally have Ross to thank for helping me find bitcoin. I was never into stocks, trading, forums or even that interested in computers really, my whole life at that time really just revolved around working, rave parties and getting high. Not particularly in that order.
One night back in late 2012 some friends told me about a site called Silk Road and how to check it out with Tor, I downloaded Tor and was blown away that this was going on and i knew nothing about it, but it wasn't the drugs that interested me it was the way the transaction were done.
Silk Road got me hooked but it wasn't the drugs i got hooked on it was Bitcoin, the whole concept of it just amazed me and i have been addicted ever since.

Like many off us, although I know what Ross did was illegal i was always ready to support and defend him in discussions with family and friends, if someone wants to take drugs then let them, it's there choice, and i still believe that today.

Reading through the sentencing transcript helped bring into light the fact that this is a real person we are talking about , not just DPR from the dark web. He had parents, was very intelligent had many friends and like everyone of us made mistakes, mistakes that he will now spend the rest of his life in jail for and all i can think is what a waste to the outside world, to lock up a man like this for his whole life, i just can't fully get my head around a life sentence and what it must mean to the one it was imposed on.

Now i have read all 98 pages of this transcript and numerous other reports, articles and anything else i could find about this topic and I still can't believe the sentence he got, life. He did break the law and deserves punishment even he admits that but life come on man they give murders less and they take a life. I know about the murder for hire shit but this sentence does not relate to that, he got life for basically just running Silk Road.

I would recommend to anyone that is looking for some interesting reading to have a look at the following links, not every day is there but i posted what i could remember reading.
If you can add anything i have missed it would be much appreciated.

First week of trial: https://www.deepdotweb.com/tag/transcriptSR/
Week 2: http://www.dailydot.com/crime/ulbricht- ... cript-120/
Final Sentencing Transcript: http://www.scribd.com/doc/283722300

Also check out:
Free Ross: http://freeross.org/
DEA's personal history regarding Silk Road: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/here-i ... ecommended
DEA's Carl Force Trial Sentencing Memorandum: http://www.coindesk.com/prosecutors-see ... dea-agent/
Finale Auction of Silk Road coins: http://cointelegraph.com/news/115385/us ... -cash-only

Edit: Silk Road Agent Jailed: https://blockchain.info/r?url=http%3A%2 ... -months%2F

[LiteCoinGuy]

i followed that story loosely but what punishment is fair in your opinion? some would say he did not comit a crime at all (i dont say that).

[bitkilo]

i followed that story loosely but what punishment is fair in your opinion? some would say he did not comit a crime at all (i dont say that).

A "fair" punishment is always hard to decide especially when we as the public only get the info that is given out in the media, the courtroom hears everything.
Ross did deserve a custodial sentence because he did break the law but it's the length of the sentence the boggles my mind - Life with no parole.
I would say that just by going on what i have read a sentence of about 15-20 years max would do. As i understand it because he was charged with a federal crime parole is not an option so that means his life sentence actually means life never to be released.

Would his expertise not be put to better use working for the FBI or homeland security?
Everyday of the week one of the 3 letter agencies gives a sentence break to those who can help them solve further crimes so why not Ross? Has Ross ever said that he would or would not help law enforcement if they asked?
I believe the only reason the agencies are not interested in his help is because they want to use him as an example to other darkweb marketplace owners of what can happen and that is not right, you can't just use someone as a example to the rest, well i guess you can but it's not morally right in my books.

What sentence do other members think would have suited his crime?

[rogerver]

Since none of the crimes he was charged with have victims, I think he should be let go.

The deterrent factor didn't work either.
There are more dark net markets now than ever before:

https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-mar ... son-chart/

[bitkilo]

Since none of the crimes he was charged with have victims, I think he should be let go.

The deterrent factor didn't work either.
There are more dark net markets now than ever before:

https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-mar ... son-chart/

The deterrent factor never works just like zero tolerance never works, they should really just give up this whole war on drugs shit and let people put whatever they want into their bodies as long as it's not harming anyone else but themselves. It would probably save the government a whole heap of cash.

[grabberfish]

Since none of the crimes he was charged with have victims, I think he should be let go.

Agreed. If there is no victim, there is no crime. Other than the private prisons, who benefits from the incarceration of Ross? The idea of a punitive sentence as a means of deterrence is fundamentally a crime against the individual by the state.

I would like to see Ross set free on so many grounds. The simple fact that two of the federal agents investigating him were both committing federal crimes whilst working on the Silk Road case should have rendered all evidence that came into contact with these two as being tainted and inadmissible. That their actions were not allowed to be presented to the court makes this even more of a gross injustice. A kangaroo court. But this is what I expect from the self-styled Land of the Free.

Perhaps Bernie will be able to right these wrongs. I doubt it. He'll be assimilated or something.

[bitkilo]

Since none of the crimes he was charged with have victims, I think he should be let go.

Agreed. If there is no victim, there is no crime. Other than the private prisons, who benefits from the incarceration of Ross? The idea of a punitive sentence as a means of deterrence is fundamentally a crime against the individual by the state.

I would like to see Ross set free on so many grounds. The simple fact that two of the federal agents investigating him were both committing federal crimes whilst working on the Silk Road case should have rendered all evidence that came into contact with these two as being tainted and inadmissible. That their actions were not allowed to be presented to the court makes this even more of a gross injustice. A kangaroo court. But this is what I expect from the self-styled Land of the Free.

Perhaps Bernie will be able to right these wrongs. I doubt it. He'll be assimilated or something.

That is a very good point about the 2 feds that have now been charged. Ross's attorney was not even allowed to use that in evidence even know at least 1 of those officers had already been charged.
Then Carl Force only get 78months in jail when Ross gets life, the prosecution was only asking for 87 months on Forces sentence and he broke just as many if not more laws than Ross.

Im starting to see your point now. My comment on 15-20 years max was based the crimes they say he commuted and because the judge really had no chose but to impose a harsh sentence as per the guidelines set my the corrupt US government.

Regarding the no victims statement that is a good point when you think about it, nobody sat the buyers at their computers with a gun to their head making people purchase drugs, they would have got them anyway and maybe got hurt or ripped in the process from scoring on the street corner.

When you start to think victims then you must really look at all the prescription drug overdoses and addiction today, where is the life sentence for the pharmacist and pharmaceutical companies who get new non drug users hooked everyday, if Ross had victims then the pharmaceutical companies have 100x that amount per day.

At the very least Ross should be released until he can be guranteed to get a fair retrial!

Interesting point is if the other stuff they didn't charge him with was so damaging for Ross's case then why would the prosocution leave it out?

[composmentis]

A "fair" punishment is always hard to decide especially when we as the public only get the info that is given out in the media, the courtroom hears everything.

What? I have GONE to trial!!! The judge decides WHAT the courtroom hears...if you are referring to the jury. The ONLY way you can get away with ANYTHING different is to defend yourself and take the stand and answer the prosecution during cross-examination with what you want the jury to hear....for example, in my case:
Prosecutor: "Dr. X, please tell us your education?"
Me: "My education before or after you and US agents paid corrupt local law enforcement in the South American country of XYZ to plant drugs in Mr. Q's hotel room, which by the way is an American, while you were violating a plethora of US laws, including, but not limited to the Travel Act?"
Judge: "Jury, you will disregard what you heard and Dr. X one more and you will be held in contempt of court."

Jury was dismissed and a new jury brought in....and so on.......

I will file a Writ of Coram Nobis...eventually....and "expose" them....but WHO in the hell gives a shit, right?

That is REALITY in a "Kangaroo room", my friend. Did SIX years, because I refused to testify against an American the feds had foreign corrupt agents plant drugs on, because a certain BIG PHARMA company wanted his business in some African countries. He was and is still living overseas....he did three years in a local jail in that country until a judge there THREW the case OUT, but the damage was already done.

What we ALL miss is, is that THAT judge was NEVER APPOINTED nor ELECTED. He became a judge because he was the SMARTEST! He became a FEDERAL judge in that "third world country on his MERITS"!!! He won what they call there "CONCURSO" ("mental competition on law"), in other words, he's, usually, the smartest guy in the room. I speak to him today still, because they tried to get me indicted there and when they failed they tried to bribe him to call it there way. Unf*cking believable how DIRTY and CORRUPT these MFs are.

Look what they do to judges overseas who do NOT cooperate: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 18625.html

[GaryDavisIRL]

As somebody facing the same charges as Ross, and quite possibly a similar sentence should they manage to extradite and convict me before sentencing me to imprisonment in a U.S. gulag, the original post in this thread by 'bitkilo' really touched me. People all too often forget that there are real people behind the characters that are presented in news stories, and that the person facing charges isn't the only one affected when the State prosecutes them for violating unjust laws.

If a person does not have dominion over their own bodies, if one does not own oneself and is instead declared property of the State - as is evident by the fact that putting a substance into your own body is enough to have the State initiate force against you to both punish you for it and attempt to prevent future occurrences of it - then the meaning of 'freedom' as touted by governments is so warped as to be its own antonym. When the definition of freedom starts to becomes synonymous with slavery as a result of controlling entities constantly chipping away at it, it's time to declare that such aggression and oppression will no longer be tolerated. It's time to take action against it, and time to work on returning power to the individual.

Silk Road was an attempt to do that. It was an attempt to remove government from personal transactions, from one's personal life, and help the individual to remove State control over their choices and actions. Though it ultimately ended as a result of a ferocious government's thirst for power over its citizens, it did not fail, and the ripples it created continue to spread long after the ship has sunk. Those ripples lapping at the shores of government and the occasional waves they create which lash those shores, changing the 'geography of society' in the process, continue to draw the ire of the "Authorities". That, to me, is a ringing endorsement of their disruptive nature, and an endorsement of Silk Road's success in assisting people to tear down the walls that government keeps them contained within.

If you have existed for your entire life inside four walls that you cannot see over, nor through, nor around, then you live without knowledge of the fact that there is an entire world outside them. You can't comprehend the beauty and horrors that exist beyond them. In my humble opinion, though Silk Road may not necessarily have torn down those walls, it helped people scale them. And when you're standing on top of a wall that you previously thought was insurmountable nor realised that you had any reason to scale it in the first place because you did not know the wonders that lay beyond it, you suddenly have a degree of clarity that others with their feet planted on terra firma on both sides of the wall do not. Silk Road opened the floodgates to a new method of bypassing government control over one's body, so in that respect I would suggest that it was an overwhelming success.

There are casualties in every war. Ross Ulbricht is one of them, and I may yet become another. If a slow death sentence is the price to be paid for attempting to claim dominion over one's own body, and for enabling others to do the same, perhaps it is time for the masses to peel back their blinders and realise the extent to which government has taken ownership of them as its property; when they do, they can come to but one conclusion: that the State is as much their enemy as it is the enemy of Ross Ulbricht.

[bitkilo]

Ross Ulbricht was arrested three years ago for his alleged role as the operator of the Silk Road. Last week, his appeals process kicked off. Ulbricht’s legal team made their arguments to a three panel judge on why he did not receive a fair trial.
http://insidebitcoins.com/news/update-r ... peal/36464

[bitkilo]

So i thought it was about time to update this thread with the latest events happening around this case.

Since the original unfair trial in which Ross received a life sentence never to be released the defense team for Ross has learned of just how much corruption was going on during the investigation and after the fact.
It is now know that someone logged into the DPR account on Silk Road's forum on November 18, 2013, whereas Ulbricht had been arrested and in custody since Oct 1, that is nearly seven weeks after Ross was arrested. This information was found in a back-up of the Silk Road forum database.

If this back-up had not been saved or discovered; if log-ins made by a DPR after Ross’ arrest were not found, no one would be the wiser. This begs the question: how much more is there?
This discovery indicates that there is more corruption in the Silk Road case. If anyone has any more information about corruption or tampering, please contact us at FreeRoss.org.

I have added some links for those that wish to read into the corruption of this case further: * http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/29/ross- ... dium=email

* http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/01/a-dre ... dium=email

* http://www.coindesk.com/rogue-silk-road ... 78-months/

* http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/ ... 4aad4712d8 The proof of evidence tampering that has now been uncovered and the extent of the corruption in this case alone should really be enough to have Ross released immediately pending the appeal, all of his alleged crimes.
I can't understand why they wouldn't release him immediately into the care of his family under house arrest until a panel of independent judges can go though the new evidence of corruption to determine if Ross received a fair first trail or not.

They have no reason to keep Ross locked up until this extremely important matter can be looked into, why are his rights not being taken into account here. His alleged crimes were victim-less crimes and he is not a risk to the public, he should be released instantly pending an appeal.

[Decoded]

So i thought it was about time to update this thread with the latest events happening around this case.

Since the original unfair trial in which Ross received a life sentence never to be released the defense team for Ross has learned of just how much corruption was going on during the investigation and after the fact.
It is now know that someone logged into the DPR account on Silk Road's forum on November 18, 2013, whereas Ulbricht had been arrested and in custody since Oct 1, that is nearly seven weeks after Ross was arrested. This information was found in a back-up of the Silk Road forum database.

If this back-up had not been saved or discovered; if log-ins made by a DPR after Ross’ arrest were not found, no one would be the wiser. This begs the question: how much more is there?
This discovery indicates that there is more corruption in the Silk Road case. If anyone has any more information about corruption or tampering, please contact us at FreeRoss.org.

I have added some links for those that wish to read into the corruption of this case further: * http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/29/ross- ... dium=email

* http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/01/a-dre ... dium=email

* http://www.coindesk.com/rogue-silk-road ... 78-months/

* http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/ ... 4aad4712d8 The proof of evidence tampering that has now been uncovered and the extent of the corruption in this case alone should really be enough to have Ross released immediately pending the appeal, all of his alleged crimes.
I can't understand why they wouldn't release him immediately into the care of his family under house arrest until a panel of independent judges can go though the new evidence of corruption to determine if Ross received a fair first trail or not.

They have no reason to keep Ross locked up until this extremely important matter can be looked into, why are his rights not being taken into account here. His alleged crimes were victim-less crimes and he is not a risk to the public, he should be released instantly pending an appeal.

Now that's something that really requires a lot of digging. Even if there was someone doing things on his account, most of his offences were not from him actually doing anything, but him founding and operating the site, which made illicit trades all the more easier to get into, making him an accomplice, as he helped all the shit go on.

Think about it, if a guy creates a firecracker, but he gives it to someone who blows it up in someones face and kills them, he will be charged for murder. Same thing with Ross. He was not necessarily making the site for an evil intent, but he allowed a way for hitmen, drug dealers and illicit arms traders to get ahold of people who they otherwise couldn't have.

[bitkilo]

Now that's something that really requires a lot of digging. Even if there was someone doing things on his account, most of his offences were not from him actually doing anything, but him founding and operating the site, which made illicit trades all the more easier to get into, making him an accomplice, as he helped all the shit go on.

Think about it, if a guy creates a firecracker, but he gives it to someone who blows it up in someones face and kills them, he will be charged for murder. Same thing with Ross. He was not necessarily making the site for an evil intent, but he allowed a way for hitmen, drug dealers and illicit arms traders to get ahold of people who they otherwise couldn't have.

Ross simply set up a website that allowed users to meet and trade in products that certain governments around the world had deemed illegal.

On the original Silk Road site there was no hitmen or weapons for sale because that would have gone against DPR's vision of a site that would reduce harm.

One of the best comparison I have heard was that just because there is illegal and stolen goods often being sold on Craigslist it doesn't mean that the creator of Craigslist should spend the rest of his life in jail but that is exactly what has happened to Ross Ulbricht.

[Decoded]

Now that's something that really requires a lot of digging. Even if there was someone doing things on his account, most of his offences were not from him actually doing anything, but him founding and operating the site, which made illicit trades all the more easier to get into, making him an accomplice, as he helped all the shit go on.

Think about it, if a guy creates a firecracker, but he gives it to someone who blows it up in someones face and kills them, he will be charged for murder. Same thing with Ross. He was not necessarily making the site for an evil intent, but he allowed a way for hitmen, drug dealers and illicit arms traders to get ahold of people who they otherwise couldn't have.

Ross simply set up a website that allowed users to meet and trade in products that certain governments around the world had deemed illegal.

On the original Silk Road site there was no hitmen or weapons for sale because that would have gone against DPR's vision of a site that would reduce harm.

One of the best comparison I have heard was that just because there is illegal and stolen goods often being sold on Craigslist it doesn't mean that the creator of Craigslist should spend the rest of his life in jail but that is exactly what has happened to Ross Ulbricht.

Craigslist is a clearnet site. One can easily see the IP of whoever is connecting to their server. This is known by many illegal traders, thus they do not use clearnet sites to trade this kind of stuff as much as on the deep web.

The Silk Road however, is a tor site. Even if one wanted to track each and every user, they couldn't, because they are routed through multiple tor bridges. The only way that one could have done that is to take down every single tor bridge that relayed a data request to finally get to the origin. It going to happen. It's also the sheer magnitude of illicit trades going on there. Multiple times more illicit trades there than on Craigslist.