Today is the second most congested day in the entire history of Bitcoin

[rogerver]

This whole delay is beyond ridiculous.
It is a problem that we have known was coming for years!

https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/736274071113977856

[inBitweTrust]

Isn't this the general idea? Keep blocks completely full to have a transaction fee market that prevents people from effectively attacking or abusing the network. fees to immediately get in the next block look like they are 4 pennies. Is that too much? https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

[iFixBTCmemoryIssues]

Isn't this the general idea? Keep blocks completely full to have a transaction fee market that prevents people from effectively attacking or abusing the network. fees to immediately get in the next block look like they are 4 pennies. Is that too much? https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

No, it is an idea and attack made from blockstream.com scammers.

Bitcoin is meant to be free. Business owners such as myself run nodes to provide free transactions and we do this because it benefits our business and customer-base.

I understand the morons at blockstream.com kept all their funds in Mt. Gox, and when that tanked, you were upset and mostly bankrupt. It is your own fault for keeping all of your funds in hot storage. There is no need to seek revenge by stealing from your customer base and attacking our nodes. The Mt. Gox situation alone shows me how stupid you are.

One day you will wake up and see that this was one of the most idiotic decisions of your lives. In jail, broke, your reputations ruined for life. Remember who told you this.

[rogerver]

Isn't this the general idea? Keep blocks completely full to have a transaction fee market that prevents people from effectively attacking or abusing the network. fees to immediately get in the next block look like they are 4 pennies. Is that too much? https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

We have several decades until transaction fees need to replace the block reward as revenue for the miners.
Forcing that to happen today is incredibly short sighted, and will force the entire crypto currency ecosystem to switch to something other than Bitcoin.
We are already seeing this happen with the rise of the value of Ethereum.

[zju]

Isn't this the general idea? Keep blocks completely full to have a transaction fee market that prevents people from effectively attacking or abusing the network. fees to immediately get in the next block look like they are 4 pennies. Is that too much? https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

Bitcoin is meant to be free. Business owners such as myself run nodes to provide free transactions and we do this because it benefits our business and customer-base.

You may run a node for free, but you don't mine for free.

Mining provides security. If miners are not paid, then who will mine?

Also, you don't know what Bitcoin is "meant to be". Bitcoin is not "meant to be" anything. Every person has an idea of what they would like Bitcoin to be. Nobody, especially you, has a monopoly on that.

[zju]

Isn't this the general idea? Keep blocks completely full to have a transaction fee market that prevents people from effectively attacking or abusing the network. fees to immediately get in the next block look like they are 4 pennies. Is that too much? https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

We have several decades until transaction fees need to replace the block reward as revenue for the miners.
Forcing that to happen today is incredibly short sighted, and will force the entire crypto currency ecosystem to switch to something other than Bitcoin.
We are already seeing this happen with the rise of the value of Ethereum.

I agree with your viewpoint, but I don't go to the extreme that small blocks are going to kill Bitcoin, as some people do. I am aligned with Gavin, considering small blocks to be a self-imposed handicap that will limit growth and potential.

But also, if Ethereum replaces Bitcoin as the dominant crypto-currency, is that necessarily a bad outcome?

[iFixBTCmemoryIssues]

Isn't this the general idea? Keep blocks completely full to have a transaction fee market that prevents people from effectively attacking or abusing the network. fees to immediately get in the next block look like they are 4 pennies. Is that too much? https://bitcoinfees.21.co/#delay

Bitcoin is meant to be free. Business owners such as myself run nodes to provide free transactions and we do this because it benefits our business and customer-base.

You may run a node for free, but you don't mine for free.

Mining provides security. If miners are not paid, then who will mine?

Also, you don't know what Bitcoin is "meant to be". Bitcoin is not "meant to be" anything. Every person has an idea of what they would like Bitcoin to be. Nobody, especially you, has a monopoly on that.

Miners are paid rewards for their efforts. In fact, if you refer to a post Roger made which includes a graph, it shows miners will receive higher rewards next year than they will this year.

Bitcoin is a peer 2 peer electronic payment system as outlined in the white-paper. The creator developed this white-paper, not me. This creator and his vision is the one who put money into your hands. You would not be here today if it weren't for him.

The only ones attempting to monopolize Bitcoin is blockstream.com and its associates, that is clear. You are trying to force Bitcoin to be a settlement only network with "trusted" Lightning hubs and other bullshit sides-chains to control payments. You are bribing specific company's to be their own payment provider of your network to monopolize. I'd say that is your definition of a monopoly.

Trying to redirect this conversation back on me will get you no where. Do you know why? I am truly for letting Bitcoin evolve from its original path. This is not decided by you or a board of criminals. This does not include interfering with the protocol, attacking nodes, stealing from its users and harming others in ways I would never imagine.

You may have a few cowardly victories under your belt, enjoy them.

[inBitweTrust]

We have several decades until transaction fees need to replace the block reward as revenue for the miners.
Forcing that to happen today is incredibly short sighted, and will force the entire crypto currency ecosystem to switch to something other than Bitcoin.
We are already seeing this happen with the rise of the value of Ethereum.

I have seen your chart to support your statement and it is flawed because it completely assumes speculative and unknowable figures in the future and doesn't consider the externalized costs associated by the ecosystem subsidizing your "free" transactions. It is rather puzzling being with you being an AnCAP why you seem to make the same mistake that Socialists and communists make where they don't allow the free market to determine prices and expect the ecosystem to subsidize txs for others. The Transaction fee market is a very important resource that we need now to prevent/discourage future attacks (a few have already occurred).

I never signed up for bitcoin assuming we would continue running to run Ponzi-like arrangement where new users are forced to pay for existing users transactions. It was always understood that we would slowly start introducing higher tx fees. I understand that you disagree with the timing, but it isn't just about kicking the can down the road but setting a precedent that we make protocol decisions based upon facts and well reasoned arguments and not appeals to authority. The facts clearly supports cores roadmap in this case as even Gavin admits there would be at least a fair to extensive node drop off due to his plans. Your priorities are misaligned if you aren't focused on securing bitcoin instead of worrying about free txs with feedz de birdz. We both want to bootstrap users as quickly as possible, make no mistake , we just disagree with how to get there and what compromises are allowed to occur.

We are already seeing this happen with the rise of the value of Ethereum.

I own none, and don't plan on ever investing in ethereum because the whole concept is fundamentally flawed.

How many ethereum do you own? (as a matter of percentage of your crypto assets to respect your privacy)

[inBitweTrust]

But also, if Ethereum replaces Bitcoin as the dominant crypto-currency, is that necessarily a bad outcome?

In some ways yes, Ethereum is fundamentally flawed technologically , was created with a premined ICO, and has centralized development from a organization that can be targeted. Bitcoin luckily has many different competing and cooperating development teams and implementations. For these reasons I am not too worry about Ethereum overtaking bitcoin, except for the fact that it represents a distraction that can hurt a few investors.