The Lost Argument-Bitcoin as a Precursor to Ideal Money

[JalToorey]

I compress.

Bitcoin has a polarized debate, those looking to ensure bitcoin will remain a coffee money (big-blockers), and those that do not share this interest (small-blockers). Most of the small blockers are known for having security concerns, and they covet security over usability. There many nuances to this debate, I must ignore them for now.

I mean to suggest that if the implied nature of bitcoin (ie without changing 1mb bitcoin will not be a coffee money) can be left alone for ever, then bitcoin will evolve to be the mechanism by which we ultimately achieve Ideal Money.

I think many players have not been exposed to this argument so I asked Roger Ver if I might open dialogue on the subject.

I think we might explore, "What is Ideal Money?" "How might Ideal Money be brought about?" and "What is bitcoin's relationship (and especially the block size debate) to Ideal Money (ie can bitcoin be used to bring about Ideal Money?"

[LiteCoinGuy]

What features should the ideal money have?

Acceptability: The most important attribute of money is that it is readily acceptable in all types of transactions.

Durability: It is necessary that money does not wear out quickly.

Homogeneity: Modern money is homogeneous and uniform in value and form. For example, if you have two dollar bills, they should be worth the same amount. although this may seem very obvious to you, you need to remember that previous forms of money were not always uniform.

Divisibility: Money should be able to be divided into smaller units.

Portability: Money should be easy to carry and exchange from one person to another.


Bitcoin - The best money human civilization has ever seen?

[iFixBTCmemoryIssues]

I compress.

Bitcoin has a polarized debate, those looking to ensure bitcoin will remain a coffee money (big-blockers), and those that do not share this interest (small-blockers). Most of the small blockers are known for having security concerns, and they covet security over usability. There many nuances to this debate, I must ignore them for now.

I mean to suggest that if the implied nature of bitcoin (ie without changing 1mb bitcoin will not be a coffee money) can be left alone for ever, then bitcoin will evolve to be the mechanism by which we ultimately achieve Ideal Money.

I think many players have not been exposed to this argument so I asked Roger Ver if I might open dialogue on the subject.

I think we might explore, "What is Ideal Money?" "How might Ideal Money be brought about?" and "What is bitcoin's relationship (and especially the block size debate) to Ideal Money (ie can bitcoin be used to bring about Ideal Money?"

My main problem with the small-blockers is they are a bunch of greedy scammers with a long history of bad business deals looking to get rich off of stealing fees from you. They know nothing about economics. Major University's have told them to raise the block-size and they still do not listen. Why don't they listen? Because it interrupts with their scam.

Fortunately for us, we have bitcoin.com, coinbase.com and hundreds of other reputable company's that have been with Bitcoin since day 1 or close to and will ensure the network survives and continues to prosper.

[JalToorey]

What features should the ideal money have?

Acceptability: The most important attribute of money is that it is readily acceptable in all types of transactions.

Durability: It is necessary that money does not wear out quickly.

Homogeneity: Modern money is homogeneous and uniform in value and form. For example, if you have two dollar bills, they should be worth the same amount. although this may seem very obvious to you, you need to remember that previous forms of money were not always uniform.

Divisibility: Money should be able to be divided into smaller units.

Portability: Money should be easy to carry and exchange from one person to another.


Bitcoin - The best money human civilization has ever seen?

Ah you speak nothing to the quality of the money in regards to holding value over time (especially long-term)?

[JalToorey]

I compress.

Bitcoin has a polarized debate, those looking to ensure bitcoin will remain a coffee money (big-blockers), and those that do not share this interest (small-blockers). Most of the small blockers are known for having security concerns, and they covet security over usability. There many nuances to this debate, I must ignore them for now.

I mean to suggest that if the implied nature of bitcoin (ie without changing 1mb bitcoin will not be a coffee money) can be left alone for ever, then bitcoin will evolve to be the mechanism by which we ultimately achieve Ideal Money.

I think many players have not been exposed to this argument so I asked Roger Ver if I might open dialogue on the subject.

I think we might explore, "What is Ideal Money?" "How might Ideal Money be brought about?" and "What is bitcoin's relationship (and especially the block size debate) to Ideal Money (ie can bitcoin be used to bring about Ideal Money?"

My main problem with the small-blockers is they are a bunch of greedy scammers with a long history of bad business deals looking to get rich off of stealing fees from you. They know nothing about economics. Major University's have told them to raise the block-size and they still do not listen. Why don't they listen? Because it interrupts with their scam.

Fortunately for us, we have bitcoin.com, coinbase.com and hundreds of other reputable company's that have been with Bitcoin since day 1 or close to and will ensure the network survives and continues to prosper.

This is the fun thing. I am none of those things, I present an argument from Nash who also is none of those things. I suspect you haven't heard/understood it, but its strong.

[iFixBTCmemoryIssues]

I compress.

Bitcoin has a polarized debate, those looking to ensure bitcoin will remain a coffee money (big-blockers), and those that do not share this interest (small-blockers). Most of the small blockers are known for having security concerns, and they covet security over usability. There many nuances to this debate, I must ignore them for now.

I mean to suggest that if the implied nature of bitcoin (ie without changing 1mb bitcoin will not be a coffee money) can be left alone for ever, then bitcoin will evolve to be the mechanism by which we ultimately achieve Ideal Money.

I think many players have not been exposed to this argument so I asked Roger Ver if I might open dialogue on the subject.

I think we might explore, "What is Ideal Money?" "How might Ideal Money be brought about?" and "What is bitcoin's relationship (and especially the block size debate) to Ideal Money (ie can bitcoin be used to bring about Ideal Money?"

My main problem with the small-blockers is they are a bunch of greedy scammers with a long history of bad business deals looking to get rich off of stealing fees from you. They know nothing about economics. Major University's have told them to raise the block-size and they still do not listen. Why don't they listen? Because it interrupts with their scam.

Fortunately for us, we have bitcoin.com, coinbase.com and hundreds of other reputable company's that have been with Bitcoin since day 1 or close to and will ensure the network survives and continues to prosper.

This is the fun thing. I am none of those things, I present an argument from Nash who also is none of those things. I suspect you haven't heard/understood it, but its strong.

I am not interested in hearing your babble about Nash, he's in the past.

We live in the now, we make our own business decisions and we're the experts of our industry.

[rogerver]

What features should the ideal money have?

Acceptability: The most important attribute of money is that it is readily acceptable in all types of transactions.

Durability: It is necessary that money does not wear out quickly.

Homogeneity: Modern money is homogeneous and uniform in value and form. For example, if you have two dollar bills, they should be worth the same amount. although this may seem very obvious to you, you need to remember that previous forms of money were not always uniform.

Divisibility: Money should be able to be divided into smaller units.

Portability: Money should be easy to carry and exchange from one person to another.


Bitcoin - The best money human civilization has ever seen?

Ah you speak nothing to the quality of the money in regards to holding value over time (especially long-term)?

All of those qualities that LiteCoinGuy listed are what will give Bitcoin value over time.
So many people don't seem to realize that Bitcoin isn't the only game in town, and if Bitcoin isn't allowed to scale, people will quickly switch to some other alt coin using Shapeshift.io, or go back to using their normal banks, credit cards, and paypal.

[LiteCoinGuy]

What features should the ideal money have?

Acceptability: The most important attribute of money is that it is readily acceptable in all types of transactions.

Durability: It is necessary that money does not wear out quickly.

Homogeneity: Modern money is homogeneous and uniform in value and form. For example, if you have two dollar bills, they should be worth the same amount. although this may seem very obvious to you, you need to remember that previous forms of money were not always uniform.

Divisibility: Money should be able to be divided into smaller units.

Portability: Money should be easy to carry and exchange from one person to another.


Bitcoin - The best money human civilization has ever seen?

Ah you speak nothing to the quality of the money in regards to holding value over time (especially long-term)?

i forgot this one, you got me here - maybe that is the most important one. a store of value, so we dont end up like this:

[johnyj]

What features should the ideal money have?

Acceptability: The most important attribute of money is that it is readily acceptable in all types of transactions.

Durability: It is necessary that money does not wear out quickly.

Homogeneity: Modern money is homogeneous and uniform in value and form. For example, if you have two dollar bills, they should be worth the same amount. although this may seem very obvious to you, you need to remember that previous forms of money were not always uniform.

Divisibility: Money should be able to be divided into smaller units.

Portability: Money should be easy to carry and exchange from one person to another.

These are all trivial things comparing with the most important character: No one are in control. An ideal money should never be controlled by any entity except the owner. But currently core has demonstrated that by colluding with miners and trick them into accepting a soft fork, they can force you to lose your money or the ability to spend your money with your current software (you are forced to upgrade to their version otherwise you won't be able to spend your coins). This shows bitcoin is far from an ideal money, not yet today. Its design is heavily flawed and has to be improved

[JalToorey]

All of those qualities that LiteCoinGuy listed are what will give Bitcoin value over time.

This is how quickly I can put things in order if you will allow me to. Retaining value over time is a blanket way of listing all the factors. To you it might seem not useful and too general but you see you risk the danger of missing aspects of an Ideal Money if you simply list them without stating the money mustn't degrade in value.

So many people don't seem to realize that Bitcoin isn't the only game in town, and if Bitcoin isn't allowed to scale, people will quickly switch to some other alt coin using Shapeshift.io, or go back to using their normal banks, credit cards, and paypal.

Perhaps, but that is not to say bitcoin isn't useful and valuable as something else, like a digital gold but not necessarily a currency that is highly transacted.

Ah you speak nothing to the quality of the money in regards to holding value over time (especially long-term)?

i forgot this one, you got me here - maybe that is the most important one. a store of value, so we dont end up like this:

Yes this is clear that it must be stated in our definition. I hope Roger understands how I can say this and why it is important.

These are all trivial things comparing with the most important character: No one are in control. An ideal money should never be controlled by any entity except the owner.

This too I hope we all read my response to. Money that is control by malicious entities, or is manipulable in some way, will show up as having poor quality on the markets, its price will reflect this, and it will not be a money that has a stable value you see?