Should signature campaigns be added to this forum?

Yes, i want to earn BTC when posting.
84%
103
No, signature campaigns create too much spam.
16%
20
 
Total votes: 123
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Signature Campaigns

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:33 am

I have seen a few posts here already regarding Signature Campaigns.
I personally would not like to see the campaigns started here as they seem to just create a whole heap of spam posts from members who are only posting for the weekly/monthly payouts.

There is always a lot of complaints on bitcointalk about people starting useless topics just for somewhere to post and earn a little extra BTC and we really don't want this new forum to turn into another troll factory, this forum should be about the bitcoin community and a place to go when you just need a straight up answer for a problem you may be having.

I do like the idea of being able to earn a little extra BTC while posting but this should come as a reward for helping the community and not just for posting anything that may or may not help anyone, in other words trolls should not be rewarded for wasting peoples time.

Any input from other forum members on this subject would be much appreciated.

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:55 pm

I see a few options here, in no particular order.

1. Make a specific sub-forum for people to hash out their signature deals. (Under the Market Place area)
2. Ban all signatures across the forum
3. The forum charges a fee to have a signature that is slightly higher than what the signature spammers are willing to pay. That way, anyone who wants to have a signature for their profile can, but we wont have a bunch of people selling their signature space and cluttering things up.
4. Do nothing.

Any thoughts on which of these are best?

My initial thought is that doing both #1 and #3 would make the most sense.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:16 am

users can uncheck sig displays in their profile. problem solved. 4. do nothing. that is how freedom works.

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:34 am

users can uncheck sig displays in their profile. problem solved. 4. do nothing. that is how freedom works.
You are right that user can op not to have the signatures displayed but that still would not stop the members posting spam just to receive a signature payment, those users don't care if anyone can see their sig or not they are just in it for the money.

@rogerver, No3 is an interesting idea, do you mean that the forum itself would control the signature campaigns and sell the space as advertising to raise revenue for the forum?

Maybe sort of a split payment system where the user gets a % based on post relevance and the balance going to the forum to help fund the costs of running this new forum.
The user would receive a smaller % of signature payment if their post is consitered spam or not of relevance to the topic.
Any suggestion on this idea?
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:43 am

I'll elaborate a little bit more on my idea for #3.

My impression is that most people don't care about signatures at all.
That is why so many people are willing to sell them.

I have no idea what the going rate for selling a signature is, but let's say spammers are willing to pay $.50 per month, $6 per year.

The forum could sell the premium feature of allowing signatures on individual accounts for $8 per year.
This would still allow people who value having a signature to be able to do so for a modest payment to the forum.
The payments would fund additional improvements, but there wouldn't be any signature spam on the forum.

Another interesting idea would be to only charge $5, ($1 less than what the spammers are willing to pay) so there would still be signature spam on the forum, but the majority of the revenue from it would be going to the forum rather than the spammers. The money would then be used to fund additional improvements.

Speaking of additional improvements, lots of good things are on the way!

P.S. I just changed my signature on the old forum to invite people here:
Screen Shot 2015-09-30 at 12.50.00 PM.png
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:32 am

I have no idea what the going rate for selling a signature is, but let's say spammers are willing to pay $.50 per month, $6 per year.
Screen Shot 2015-09-30 at 12.50.00 PM.png
Senior members and higher over at bitcointalk are getting paid handsomely. Every week around $20 to have a top paying ad in your signature. They are paying 0.001 per post and many people make 100 posts per week. Be careful about adding signatures here, it leads to a lot of low quality posts.

I admit I participate in these campaigns at bitcointalk since they do pay so well, but it seems to bring more damage than good.

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:50 am

I have no idea what the going rate for selling a signature is, but let's say spammers are willing to pay $.50 per month, $6 per year.
Screen Shot 2015-09-30 at 12.50.00 PM.png
Senior members and higher over at bitcointalk are getting paid handsomely. Every week around $20 to have a top paying ad in your signature. They are paying 0.001 per post and many people make 100 posts per week. Be careful about adding signatures here, it leads to a lot of low quality posts.

I admit I participate in these campaigns at bitcointalk since they do pay so well, but it seems to bring more damage than good.
This is correct, some campaigns do pay quite well for high rank members.

Having a signature at the bottom of each post is a good idea but only if it relates to something the posting member wishes to advertise themselfs (like a personal sale), general advertising for some company that the user does not endorse or own just makes the forum full of ugly ads and useless posts from members who don't care about if their post are being read by anyone or not, they just want the BTC.
Paid advertising can be a big killer of success in the social media world.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:57 am

Wow!

I'm stunned that people are willing to pay that much.

I suppose we will need to think carefully about the signature policy for this board.

I would love to hear any other suggestions people may have.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:26 am

If there really is a big call from members to add signature campaigns is there a way that the forum can moderate the campaigns?

An example could be something like that each campaign manager would have to enter into an agreement with the forum admin before starting their signature campaign.
The "agreement" could be along the lines of:

1) All campaigns must have full funds for the duration of the campaign held with a proven escrow provider.
2) All campaign managers must be strict on spam post by their members.
3) No minimum post requirement, that way people don't post crap just to get up to the the payout limit.
4) We don't want any scams here so any campaign accepted must be from proven BTC companies like LuckyBit & Primedice for example.

We could probably add a heap more rules but we can work on that once this matter is decided on.
This is a free speech forum but i believe campaign must be moderated if they are to be included.

Any input on this guys?

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:18 pm

The biggest problem i can see is that users advertise scams. I would not like to see that because that is toxic for the community. also the Signature Campaigns should not be an eyecatcher / "eye-spammer". we should keep a clean design.

If we can solve that problem, i have no problem with these campaingns.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:40 pm

yeah that's right this forum should be different from other forums, obviously I would support this, I think maybe this forum can be much better than bitcointalk forum certainly in the future
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:10 am

I have now added a poll to this thread so if you have an opinion regarding signature campaign please vote, this will help us get a good understanding on how many members here would like to see them introduced.
I have kept it simple with only a yes and no option for the poll. If you have something you would like to say on the topic then please feel free to post a reply also, every bit of feedback will help make this forum #1

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:07 pm

This problem is heavy on Bitcointalk, and there are different discussions about on the staff section.
I think that there is probably conflict of interest with some mods.

Anyway, this is my opinion about them.

Ban signature campaigns is sure the easier, but if you think that they are useful somehow (and I'm not sure about this), than the best way is to go against campaign managers heavily.
Example: if we think that an user is spamming, we will ban both, user and campaign manager.
On this way campaign managers will choose minutely their users ;)

I still thinks that even if we solve the spamming problem, users will still post useless messages (just less), making low quality discussions and then wasting the time of the readers.

An user of the italian section (Anon39) suggested to prohibit campaign that pay for posts, and allowing only campaigns that pay a fixed value every month.
I'm not sure if this is the solution, but it can be a good improvement.

It must be also forbidden to compel the user to write a minimum of posts.

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:27 pm

"An user of the italian section (Anon39) suggested to prohibit campaign that pay for posts, and allowing only campaigns that pay a fixed value every month."

interesting idea but how do you control that?
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:30 pm

You can't, but if the admin/mod discover it, he will ban the Campaigns Administrator, totally.
This fear, for them , should be enough.

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:47 pm

Setting aside the practicalities of banning paid sigs - if it could be prevented, what benefit to the forum at large would there be in people selling out their signatures?

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:37 pm

Setting aside the practicalities of banning paid sigs - if it could be prevented, what benefit to the forum at large would there be in people selling out their signatures?
The benefit to the forum if paid signature campaigns were allowed would be that we would get more members but the downside to that would be heaps of spam, to me the downside far outweighs the up side.

The members we are looking for a are people who are genuinely interested in taking part in a discussion regarding bitcoin. The major factor that ruined things for me at the other forum was that a lot of the time you would get 1 relevant post per page, the rest just posted so they could reach their monthly campaign quota.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:37 pm

How about making it so that in order to run a sig campaign, people need to pay a fee to the forum and that those running the campaign (both the campaign managers and the person the campaign is for) can be banned based upon the posts of those in their campaigns. This both discourages campaigns so that there are less of them, and will provide an incentive to those in charge of campaigns to ban spammy users and keep a closer eye on the posts of the people in their campaign.

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Re: Signature Campaigns  Topic is solved

Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:02 am

The answer is easy :

1. Allow Signature campaigns with limitations. Signature campaign managers are only allowed to host a campaign if post are limited. (Say 30 posts per week)
2. Some areas are out of bounds for signature campaign members. (Developer area etc.. etc..)
3. Signature spammers be moderated (Temp banning / post deletion ...etc)

That will help a lot. There are many people just waiting to sign up here, if signature campaigns are allowed. They will soon learn that it will not be profitable to join just to earn a signature income. ( If rules and limitations are implemented )
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:33 am

The answer is easy :

1. Allow Signature campaigns with limitations. Signature campaign managers are only allowed to host a campaign if post are limited. (Say 30 posts per week)
2. Some areas are out of bounds for signature campaign members. (Developer area etc.. etc..)
3. Signature spammers be moderated (Temp banning / post deletion ...etc)

That will help a lot. There are many people just waiting to sign up here, if signature campaigns are allowed. They will soon learn that it will not be profitable to join just to earn a signature income. ( If rules and limitations are implemented )
Good answer!

1 & 2 are what would be required at the least if they are allowed, these are good!
But if there is many people waiting to join up here once the campaigns are allowed won't most just leave once they know they can't just spam for bitcoin?
If campaigns are added then it will take at least 1 full time mod just to keep on top of it.

I already spend about a couple of hours a day moderating this forum but to add moderating signature campigns as well that would add a massive amount of extra workload.

The question i guess i really want answered is do we need members just signing up so they can earn bitcoin by posting?
They can already earn btc on other forums, i say let them earn there and talk serious here.

Anyway the final dission will not be mine, it must be made by many people agreeing, all staff need to disscus this serioulsy in the near future but everybody is just so busy right now.
Let the poll run for a month or 2 more would be best.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:20 pm

The answer is easy :

1. Allow Signature campaigns with limitations. Signature campaign managers are only allowed to host a campaign if post are limited. (Say 30 posts per week)
2. Some areas are out of bounds for signature campaign members. (Developer area etc.. etc..)
3. Signature spammers be moderated (Temp banning / post deletion ...etc)

That will help a lot. There are many people just waiting to sign up here, if signature campaigns are allowed. They will soon learn that it will not be profitable to join just to earn a signature income. ( If rules and limitations are implemented )
Good answer!

1 & 2 are what would be required at the least if they are allowed, these are good!
But if there is many people waiting to join up here once the campaigns are allowed won't most just leave once they know they can't just spam for bitcoin?
If campaigns are added then it will take at least 1 full time mod just to keep on top of it.

I already spend about a couple of hours a day moderating this forum but to add moderating signature campigns as well that would add a massive amount of extra workload.

The question i guess i really want answered is do we need members just signing up so they can earn bitcoin by posting?
They can already earn btc on other forums, i say let them earn there and talk serious here.

Anyway the final dission will not be mine, it must be made by many people agreeing, all staff need to disscus this serioulsy in the near future but everybody is just so busy right now.
Let the poll run for a month or 2 more would be best.
There could be a moderator assigned, just to weed out the signature spammers and to deal with that.

I think it's better to offer the service as a reward for quality posting and posters and it will also draw advertisement income for the forum. All of that paid for by advertisers and not from Rogers pocket.

The signature spammers will quickly learn not to use this platform as a income generation tool, because the rules will keep them within the guidelines of what is accepted from a quality poster.

This also stimulate growth in adoption and practical methods to acquire Bitcoin, for those who wants to earn a little reward for their time.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:14 pm

I think it's worth considering that we're a new forum, desperate for users.
Allowing sig campaigns at least as freely as BCT would drag a serious chunk of users here. Most of them are, unfortunately, gonna spam threads for their payments, but we can handle that the same way we do in bct ... filters, watch lists, just looking at the last post etc. And after some time start clamping down on it if it becomes difficult.

Think of it as a loss-leader. :)
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:50 pm

I think it's worth considering that we're a new forum, desperate for users.
Allowing sig campaigns at least as freely as BCT would drag a serious chunk of users here. Most of them are, unfortunately, gonna spam threads for their payments, but we can handle that the same way we do in bct ... filters, watch lists, just looking at the last post etc. And after some time start clamping down on it if it becomes difficult.

Think of it as a loss-leader. :)
I don't know if this forum is "desperate for users" as you put it, we don't have a lot yet but it's still early days, maybe your right though.
Allowing the campaigns would bring with it a serious chunk of users from manly from Bct but i dont see that this forum has the inferstucture in place just yet to handle the associated problems that will arise.
I am not against sig campaigns, I could do with the extra bitcoin myself but I just don't think we're ready yet.

Does a forum even make btc from the campaigns?
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:33 pm

I think it's worth considering that we're a new forum, desperate for users.
Allowing sig campaigns at least as freely as BCT would drag a serious chunk of users here. Most of them are, unfortunately, gonna spam threads for their payments, but we can handle that the same way we do in bct ... filters, watch lists, just looking at the last post etc. And after some time start clamping down on it if it becomes difficult.

Think of it as a loss-leader. :)
I don't know if this forum is "desperate for users" as you put it, we don't have a lot yet but it's still early days, maybe your right though.
Allowing the campaigns would bring with it a serious chunk of users from manly from Bct but i dont see that this forum has the inferstucture in place just yet to handle the associated problems that will arise.
I am not against sig campaigns, I could do with the extra bitcoin myself but I just don't think we're ready yet.

Does a forum even make btc from the campaigns?
ok. I can't speak about the infrastructure preparedness.
I think my approach here would be to get ready (assuming that's possible) and then grab those users. You don't want to slowly die away like voat. And I don't want to have to go back to reddit. ugh! :).

I don't recall any advertiser saying they pay btc to be able to run sig campaigns, but otoh I'm not sure they would even if they did.
Seems likely tho, since there's a revenue stream, bct gets some. Even if it's only (say) fines to keep them under control..
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:08 pm

It is a tricky issue ideally you want people to participate and have an incentive to earn their first Bitcoin while learning about Bitcoin, but not spam it to bits, especially before they have a registered Bitcoin exchange account.
The best idea I can think of would be to have the signature campaign managers be held responsible if a certain majority of their users are found to violate the rules, sort of related but something I would like to see in signature campaigns again is users carrying their own personal signatures alongside any advertising they promote for someone else without needing to fill their whole sig with that product or service.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:44 pm

It is a tricky issue ideally you want people to participate and have an incentive to earn their first Bitcoin while learning about Bitcoin, but not spam it to bits, especially before they have a registered Bitcoin exchange account.
The best idea I can think of would be to have the signature campaign managers be held responsible if a certain majority of their users are found to violate the rules, sort of related but something I would like to see in signature campaigns again is users carrying their own personal signatures alongside any advertising they promote for someone else without needing to fill their whole sig with that product or service.
We could hold the campaign mangers responsible but what if they let there members do wrong, just spam for days before they are warned and banned along with the users, it would be a great mess to clean up.
Only way I can see around it would be to have each campaign manager place a certain size "BTC Bond" into escrow.

I think this forum will have signature campaigns one day so the questions is starting to change into "How do we control signature campaigns"
But we have to give the admins more time to find a workable solution, nothing is perfect but it has to been a good system and that will take time. I am not a coder so don't know how hard it really would be.

I don't think many campaign managers would want member that don't fill their signature with ONLY their advertising, at the end of the day that is what they are renting off you.
I would like to see smaller advertising signatures allowed than person ones, just a little smaller.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:22 pm

I see a few options here, in no particular order.

1. Make a specific sub-forum for people to hash out their signature deals. (Under the Market Place area)
2. Ban all signatures across the forum
3. The forum charges a fee to have a signature that is slightly higher than what the signature spammers are willing to pay. That way, anyone who wants to have a signature for their profile can, but we wont have a bunch of people selling their signature space and cluttering things up.
4. Do nothing.

Any thoughts on which of these are best?

My initial thought is that doing both #1 and #3 would make the most sense.
My vote will go with 1 & 4. Creating a sub-forum will be an excellent and an handy idea. Also, people who don't want to see the paid signatures can simply turn off the signatures.
Charging a fee would be bad for the forum. The forum is pretty new and you cannot impose restrictions at such a tender stage as it will hamper the overall growth of the forum.
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:30 am

The answer is obviously that it is advisable to allow signature campaigns. To restrict signature campaigns would be both restricting free speech (the act of buying advertising is in itself speech), and restricting a free market.

The forum is still very new and has a very small userbase currently. This means that it should be able to effectively deal with signature spammers before they become any kind of a problem. The forum mods could ban users who are clearly posting very low quality posts in order to collect signature revenue. The problem that bitcointalk had was that the problem spammers were not dealt with quickly and as a result the problem of having a lot of low quality posters quickly got out of hand.

Allowing signature campaigns will allow people to earn a little bit of BTC, and potentially get involved in BTC when they would otherwise would not do so. They also give people an incentive to learn about Bitcoin.

Signature campaigns also help in attracting additional people to bitcointalk, and help increase the number of page views which helps increase the value of the bitcointalk forum advertisements.

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Re: Signature Campaigns

Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:21 pm

I am a very high ranking member over on btctalk.(hero) I am also a campaign manager over on btctalk. I just stumbled across this forum today and i think you guys are looking at this topic all wrong.

Allowing signature campaigns does a few things for this forum. Let me list some pros and cons to try and give your members a better overview of the campaigns.

Pros:

increased activity
revenue being made(for forum and users) ill explain more in a few
increasing activity for the sites being advertised
more ppl introduced to bitcoin

Cons:
some spam brought in from users whom are posting simply to be paid
advertisements seen everywhere
Reputations smeared


Of course i could add more into either list but honestly allowing advertisments is a good thing. Lets go back to 1 of the pros up there and let me explain. Revenue for the forum and its users. If you go look on bitcointalk youll see that theymos himself sells advertising space on the forum. That ad space isnt cheap. The companies are spending a few bitcoins or more a month for special ad spaces. As this forum grows(with incresed users and activity) youll be able to do the exact same thing. Also what will bring the increase in users and activity? Advertising of course. Why do you think so many posts are made on bitcointalk? Its because users are paid for posting.

Now how do you cut down on the spam? Thats not the easiest talk but there are ways to cut down spam.

#1 do not allow bots counting posts for users(all they do is count characters and pay for anything)
#2 have great managers(you can see the spreadsheet from the magicaldice campaign i manage 200-400 posts rejected per week)
#3 As a manager make sure you are screening applicants to campaigns. If they have a spammy post history do not include them into a camapign


These are just my feelings on signature campaigns but i feel im pretty accurate on this.

lumeire
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Re: Signature Campaigns

Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:46 pm

I've been on many forums and saw how they deal with spam, w/ or w/o signatures. On one, signatures are only allowed for certain post counts, like links become clickable if you have > 300 post. On another, they require a yearly fee to activate clickable signatures, and promotes users to a certain VIP status w/in the forum (w/c also unlocks a sub-forum for users of this rank). Another one I've seen does not allow links in signatures at all. These 3 are on the same niche, and currently, the only one who went active and alive is the 2nd one, in which they allowed sigg but clickable sigs need to be paid for. The other two died b/c of lack of activity.

What I'm saying is that signatures aren't bad, we just need to be creative enough to get all parties happy that would result in the least spam.

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