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Nickel Bitcoiner
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what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:33 pm

What happens if the wallet app you are using just disappears? The backup keys are only good for that wallet, so what kind of backup do you need so you can still retrieve your bitcoin from the blockchain? I am aware of ledger nano s...just curious about wallet apps like bitcoin.com wallet.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:56 pm

Hi brags,

You can restore your funds on any other wallet that uses the same recovery phrase format, there are plenty to choose from out there.
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:22 pm

Hi brags,

You can restore your funds on any other wallet that uses the same recovery phrase format, there are plenty to choose from out there.
Ok but I was under the impression that the 12 backup words are specific for each wallet. ie bitcoin.com app or etc... What if I open multiple wallets with the same recovery phrase...or what if somebody else opens up another wallet with my recovery phrase....both wallets would have access to the bitcoin?

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:32 pm

Technically speaking, yes, That's why you should never show your recovery phrase to anyone and keep it extremely safe, treat it like your ATM pin code.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:32 pm

Technically speaking, yes, That's why you should never show your recovery phrase to anyone and keep it extremely safe, treat it like your ATM pin code.
Hmmm...that is conflicting with what I was told the other day.

No I get it now. Once I move my funds to another wallet then the first wallet backup keys are useless to anyone...unless I want to import the funds back to it one day...then I would need them.
Yes, they are useless in the sense of you, or anyone else, gaining access to your funds at the address you sent to in the other wallet.

However, it may not be a good idea to throw away the seed (the backup phrase) because you may find that you need it later. For example, if you used any of the addresses in that wallet to receive bitcoin, or even if you haven't received any bitcoin yet but you've used any of the address (e.g., given any address out to receive payments) you might find that you'll need to have accesses to those addresses again. Or even if someday you get confused and you copy and paste in some address that you had saved (maybe in a notepad or anywhere) from that wallet and end up receiving bitcoin at such an address.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:41 pm

Technically speaking, yes, That's why you should never show your recovery phrase to anyone and keep it extremely safe, treat it like your ATM pin code.
Hmmm...that is conflicting with what I was told the other day.

No I get it now. Once I move my funds to another wallet then the first wallet backup keys are useless to anyone...unless I want to import the funds back to it one day...then I would need them.
Yes, they are useless in the sense of you, or anyone else, gaining access to your funds at the address you sent to in the other wallet.

However, it may not be a good idea to throw away the seed (the backup phrase) because you may find that you need it later. For example, if you used any of the addresses in that wallet to receive bitcoin, or even if you haven't received any bitcoin yet but you've used any of the address (e.g., given any address out to receive payments) you might find that you'll need to have accesses to those addresses again. Or even if someday you get confused and you copy and paste in some address that you had saved (maybe in a notepad or anywhere) from that wallet and end up receiving bitcoin at such an address.
Hi brags,

I don't see any conflicting information.

Please explain more how it is conflicting.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:51 pm

Well are the 12 back up keys from bitcoin.com used for importing to another wallet like at copay? Or are they only for the bitcoin.com wallet app? I have a copay wallet and it has its own set of 12 backup keys.


If so, then what happens if bitcoin.com app, or any app suddenly disappears..like discontinued...poof...how would one recover their bitcoin?

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:40 pm

Well are the 12 back up keys from bitcoin.com used for importing to another wallet like at copay? Or are they only for the bitcoin.com wallet app? I have a copay wallet and it has its own set of 12 backup keys.

If so, then what happens if bitcoin.com app, or any app suddenly disappears..like discontinued...poof...how would one recover their bitcoin?
I still don't see any conflicting information. If you think that there is then please explain specifically how there is.

I think you might be making this more difficult than it really is (don't worry, we all do this with some subjects/topics sometimes).

You can use your backup phrase (seeds words) in more than one wallet, including the Copay wallet. You could use your same seed words in as many wallets as you want.

For example I've imported my seed from my Nano Ledger S (the seed from the Nano is 24 words) into my Bitcoin.com wallet. Now I can send from either wallet.

Once I send bitcoins to an address that is not in my wallet (either of them) I can't just import my seed (the backup phrase) into a new wallet and think that I'm restoring a copy of my bitcoins again (bitcoins which I no longer have, because I've spent them already).

Your backup is not like a hard drive backup. You're not making a copy of having, for example, 100 bitcoins at address X and then spend those coins and then use your backup phrase and then restore those 100 bitcoins to the same address (i.e., address X) that they were sent from. That's not how it works.

Moreover, there are no bitcoins in wallets. Wallets hold private keys which allow you to send bitcoin from the corresponding public addresses on the blockchain. Bitcoins are numbers on the blockchain.


EDIT by Nandibear (april 23, 2018): Please note that in this post I mentioned importing the seed from my Nano Ledger S (the seed from the Nano is 24 words) into my Bitcoin.com wallet. While this is possible to I do not suggest, nor do I endorse, doing so. If you do decide to do so (at your own risk) please know that you've just defeated the very purpose of having a hardware wallet. You've now add a point of failure due to the fact that your keys are no longer stored solely in your offline hardware wallet. Hardware wallets are designed to be more secure than software wallets.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:23 am

ok so if I create 3 different wallets with 3 different seeds then all of them will have access to the blockchain "coins" until they are sent to another wallet that is not mine.

So what happens if:

Somebody gets hold of backup keys for the wallet #1...they can download a wallet app and "import" the coins to that wallet.

Now I will see all the coins on my 3 wallets, and he will see the coins in his (4th) wallet. And when he sends the coins to an exchange or to a 5th wallet then I would wake up to ZERO coins in my 3 wallets?

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:29 am

(and of course he would see ZERO coins in his 4th wallet and ALL the coins in his 5th wallet)

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:21 am

ok so if I create 3 different wallets with 3 different seeds then all of them will have access to the blockchain "coins" until they are sent to another wallet that is not mine.

So what happens if:

Somebody gets hold of backup keys for the wallet #1...they can download a wallet app and "import" the coins to that wallet.

Now I will see all the coins on my 3 wallets, and he will see the coins in his (4th) wallet. And when he sends the coins to an exchange or to a 5th wallet then I would wake up to ZERO coins in my 3 wallets?
Brags,

Please see my bold red edit in my previous reply above.

Also, regarding your new questions:

Just to be clear (so that there's no misunderstanding) you cannot pick words yourself for the seed. The seed, or backup phrase, is generated when you create a new wallet (unless you created the wallet with an existing backup phrase).

Now, if you have 3 different wallets and each has it's own unique seed and then someone were to get a hold of one of your backup phrases it would be applicable to only that one wallet (not the other two). Moreover, they'd only have access to any funds which were still in that wallet.
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:13 am

Hi Brags,

I think you may be confusing wallets with addresses. Each wallet has a backup mnemonic phrase (normally 12 words) and each address will have a corresponding private key to sign the transactions with.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:47 am

Yes. I am referring to the backup mnemonic phrase. I have one with bitcoin.com. What happens if bitcoin.com wallet app just disappears? Can I open a new wallet elsewhere, using the backup mnemonic phrase from the bitcoin.com wallet?

That's all I was asking originally.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:42 am

I understand that the 12 backup key is created via the wallet...and they are used to hash the wallet addresses.
I understand that once you spend bitcoin you can't recover it by reopening a wallet with the backup phrase.
I understand that bitcoin is not actually in the wallet...it resides in the blockchain.

What I don't understand is if a 12 word backup key can be used to import bitcoin on different wallet apps. So if I have a copay wallet which generated backup keys. If copay wallet one day no longer exists then can I use the (copay) backup phrase to import my bitcoins to the bitcoin.com wallet or another wallet?

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:46 pm

Hi brags,

You can restore your funds on any other wallet that uses the same recovery phrase format, there are plenty to choose from out there.




You can use your backup phrase (seeds words) in more than one wallet, including the Copay wallet. You could use your same seed words in as many wallets as you want.




Yes, they are useless in the sense of you, or anyone else, gaining access to your funds at the address you sent to in the other wallet.


Ok I see where the confusion is. I am NOT talking about sending "bitcoins" to another wallet. I am talking about importing "bitcoins" to a new wallet. What happens if somebody gets a hold of my bitcoin.com wallet app backup phrase (12 words) and then attempts to import the "coins" to a copay wallet...will the bitcoin.com wallet app backup phrase (12 words) work? From what I am reading they apparently will.

This is important because if I want to leave my bitcoins to someone, then all I have to do is give them my 12 word backup phrase and they will be able to open up any wallet app they choose...instead of having to open/import to the wallet that generated the back up keys originally.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:08 pm

...
The quotes in your post are out of context. These points have been already been explained to you (also in other threads here on this forum). The only confusion here is your's alone.

I recommend that you take a few weeks (or more) to learn more about bitcoin. Do some reading and watch videos. I'm not able to assist you any further.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:29 pm


The quotes in your post are out of context. These points have been already been explained to you (also in other threads here on this forum). The only confusion here is your's alone.

I recommend that you take a few weeks (or more) to learn more about bitcoin. Do some reading and watch videos. I'm not able to assist you any further.

You were unable to grasp the question originally which was evident by your responses. I suggest you spend more time comprehending what is actually being asked.

Can someone besides Nandi bear confirm that 12 word backup phrases are compatible across different wallet apps or only with the wallet app that generated them?
Last edited by brags on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:46 pm


The quotes in your post are out of context. These points have been already been explained to you (also in other threads here on this forum). The only confusion here is your's alone.

I recommend that you take a few weeks (or more) to learn more about bitcoin. Do some reading and watch videos. I'm not able to assist you any further.

You were unable to grasp the question originally which was evident by your responses. I suggest you spend more time comprehending what is actually being asked before responding with irrelevant answers. Anyway I am tired of trying to spoon feed you...can someone besides Nandi bear confirm that 12 word backup phrases are compatible across different wallet apps or only with the wallet app that generated them?
Hi Brags,

I think there was a misunderstanding in communication here, Nandibears answers were relevant and correct, he is just trying to help you out.
To answer your question simply, yes, you can restore the funds on any wallet that uses a 12 word recovery phrase, the Bitcoin.com wallet is not the only wallet that uses a 12 word recovery phrase. I hope that helps.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:48 pm

Thank you.
Last edited by brags on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:50 pm

No problem.
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Nickel Bitcoiner
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:54 pm

I just want to add that Nandi bear did indeed answer this question...I agree, it was a miscommunication.
Last edited by brags on Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:58 pm

Not to worry at all, It happens, It's difficult sometimes when communicating via 'text'.
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:00 pm

If they haven't done exit scam, you should be able to restore from seed or private key, but be very careful with online wallets. For bigger sums use a hardware wallet.
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Re: what happens if wallet app disappears?

Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:23 pm

If they haven't done exit scam, you should be able to restore from seed or private key, but be very careful with online wallets. For bigger sums use a hardware wallet.
Exit scams are irrelevant if you hold the private keys to your bitcoins; holding the private keys to your funds makes any sort of 'exit scam' an impossibility as you are the one in control of the funds.

Online wallets that hold the private keys literally own your bitcoins. There's a saying in Bitcoin: If you don't control the private keys to your bitcoins, you don't actually own any bitcoins. So even if you have 100 bitcoins, if you're not storing them in a wallet 100% under your own control then you don't actually own any Bitcoin at all.

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